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April 10, 2005
Disturbing report on wife beating in Jordan
Mariam highlighted a very disturbing report (in Arabic) published on al-Arabiya's website that says over 80% of Jordanian women support wife-beating! I'm not sure if this has even a smidgen of truth to it but the figures, released by Jordan's National Family Council, are quite alarming and disturbing.
According to the report:
- 83% of Jordanian women approve of wife beating if the woman cheats on her husband
- 60% approve of wife beating in cases where the wife burns a meal she's cooking
- 52% approve of wife beating in case where she's refused to follow the husband's orders
I'm quite skeptical, as the figures are very alarming! If this proves true, then a major awareness campaign should take place among Jordanian women as soon as possible! Oh my, the world is going down the drain!
Posted by Natasha at 02:51 PM in Jordan, my nation | 
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» FOR A GODDAMN MEAL?! from And Far Away...
I've been following up this topic for quite some time and reading the comments with interest. I usually avoid commenting on topics pertaining to politics and religion, but I can't hold my silence any more.
When I first read about this on Madas' Jo... [Read More]
Tracked on Apr 14, 2005 11:50:13 AM
» Not for a goddamn meal from And Far Away...
Today, I had the pleasure of meeting Leila Hamarneh, the projects director of the Arab Women Organization.
In the course of the conversation, a controversial report on wife beating published by the Jordan's National Family Council was mentioned as... [Read More]
Tracked on Sep 11, 2005 4:29:08 PM
Comments
Tfeh! as we say in Lebanon...I don't doubt the numbers...
Posted by: amal | Apr 10, 2005 3:06:00 PM | Email this comment
That's actually really depressing...
Posted by: Roba | Apr 10, 2005 3:47:33 PM | Email this comment
Amal,
We say tfeh in Jordan as well:-)
Posted by: natasha | Apr 10, 2005 4:29:22 PM | Email this comment
The number one enemy for women's rights is women. This is all part of the cultre, unfortunately, and before things change, the culture needs to change with the times. This may have been acceptable 50 years ago here in the states or 10 years ago in Europe, but they have changed and now its a must that the middle east change in regards to women's rights. we are considered as second class citizens. and if any one expects democracey to flurish in the middle east, it can not be done with only allowing 50 percent of the population to only flourish and become democratic. it is just not possible. and for those who say other wise, then prove it. im just so sick of this part of my culture.
Posted by: Linda | Apr 10, 2005 4:32:51 PM | Email this comment
This shows that "niswanna" are "mrabayat kwayyis"!
Posted by: jameed: the backwards caveman | Apr 10, 2005 5:10:52 PM | Email this comment
lol @ jameed, ure gonna get bashed by the females now.
Anyway, these stastics are really bad. The problem however lies in the solution. I think that we are always demanding these immediate remedies and we take anything that comes our way not remembering that not everything that works elsewhere can work here with the same results or at least, desirable results.
The solution as Linda said, needs to stem from awareness and re-education of the masses. It makes no sense to me to focus on the female population as if they've done something wrong. It is the male masses which must be changed, their must be a degree of a social paradigm change as far as men-women relations. If the men are socially conditioned not to beat women and to treat them like queens, then they in turn will be treated like kings. I am however against introducing 1,000 laws which will lead to 70% divorce rate in the country. Laws in these cases are like trying to fix a leaking boat with super glue.
Posted by: Nas | Apr 10, 2005 5:25:09 PM | Email this comment
60% approve of wife beating in cases where the wife burns a meal she's cooking
That's a double whammy, why would they even ask a question related to cooking?
Posted by: Arash | Apr 10, 2005 7:10:10 PM | Email this comment
I cant believe its true...
lets take a sample from Jordanian bloggers,
Roba, Natasha, Linda and other females -> ever got beatin or know a relative got beatin because of thos reasons?
Posted by: Jad | Apr 11, 2005 12:48:08 AM | Email this comment
Isn't there a verse in the Hadith that says it's ok to "lightly" beat your wife, somewhere other than the face, if she doesn't respond to correction verbally? If that is the case, well then there you are. Sanctioned.
When I lived in Hashmi Shemali, there was only one neighbor who's husband DIDN'T hit her regularly. The rest, who told me about that Hadith, also said that if the wife doesn't respond to verbal correction or beating, the husband was to withhold sex from her as the ultimate punishment (since women are such sex-controlled beings). They would laugh, and tell me they always tried to stay at that third level of punishment so they didn't have to endure sex that was for his pleasure only or having yet another child
Jad, I think in West Amman the husbands hit the maids instead. But I've seen some good shiners behind designer sunglasses in Abduun.
But, very true that women perpetuate the problem.
Posted by: kinzi | Apr 11, 2005 1:21:02 AM | Email this comment
I of course do not believe any one should be beaten up unless its for self defense, hence, the reason i took a self defense class for women where we are trained by police officers and learn the exact moves they use to defend themseleves. watch out guys, i can lay the smakc donw on any one, if i needed to defend myself. but, i do not know of any jordanian relatives who has been beaten up or approves of it.
Posted by: Linda | Apr 11, 2005 1:55:16 AM | Email this comment
Jameed, I just figured out what you wrote "our women are raised well"! If you MEANT that in this context, then aptly named you are, dried yogurt block! I hope the "caveman" addition to your name shows you are just kidding. And we promise not to come after you with boiling sheep broth.
Posted by: kinzi | Apr 11, 2005 6:23:29 AM | Email this comment
I will be more curious to know if men were surveyed and asked the same question about beating wives. I think results will be more compassionate than answers given by women. I would like those numbers to be as low as the number of times I would like to see the police come to arrest me for beating my wife.
Posted by: jareer | Apr 11, 2005 12:00:56 PM | Email this comment
Kinzi, please before you post anything regarding an Islamic thing which you may be misinformed about or know little about, attempt to do some research because otherwise you're posting something which others will take at face value. thank you :-)
p.s. hadiths and verses are two totally different things.
Posted by: Nas | Apr 11, 2005 1:11:45 PM | Email this comment
Kinzi; verse is a quote from a holy book.
Posted by: jareer | Apr 11, 2005 2:59:11 PM | Email this comment
Here are the several articles provided not as proof of anything either way but as popular conceptions of this debate, opening it up to further discussion or critique.
- Fundamental union
- Iraqi women eye Islamic law
- 'She' TV gives voice to Arab women
- Legally Brutalized
- Sharia: Scroll to domestic violence
- Holy Quran translation of "The Women" see 4.34
- Sheik Al-Qaradhawi on wife beating, homosexuality
- Islam Online Fatwa bank
Personally I don't endorse any of these opinions, as I don't consider myself in a place to make such a judgement. And some sources (see: MEMRI) are suspect, that I do know, but I do not think they are inflammatory (I hope not). But I find the debate interesting and I'm curious to see the discussion that flows from them.
Posted by: Jeff | Apr 11, 2005 4:35:57 PM | Email this comment
And if the beating got serious, here's a self-explanatory drawing regarding the Islamic blood-money. Don't hit back ladies!
Posted by: Arash | Apr 11, 2005 11:47:30 PM | Email this comment
Arash....wait! wait! lemme guess...hmm...ure iranian...and u hate Islam. am i close? say it ain't so Arash! Don't strip the world of what suprises it has left...
Posted by: Nas | Apr 12, 2005 12:03:18 AM | Email this comment
No Nas, I'm a Martian who happens to read Persian. And Islam's all the rage up there ;)
Posted by: Arash | Apr 12, 2005 12:23:53 AM | Email this comment
It's disgusting to think that any group of people are subject to beatings for their whole lives, simply on the whims of others. This institutional misogyny is probably the biggest problem I have with the legal structure of so many countries in the Arab and Islamic worlds.
For someone like me, who has limited direct exposure to this - all the Muslim women I've known have been "liberated" and residents of the U.S. or E.U. - it seems of a kind with the intense loathing of women implied in Mohammed Atta's last will and testament.
A few years ago I was a guest lecturer - just for one class - via satellite to a class of MBA students at Bilkent University. (The MBA program there is run jointly with New York University.) I was struck by the similar style of dress exhibited by the men in the class, versus the stark dichotomy among the women. About half the women were dressed in modern garb, the rest were wearing headscarves and clothes that concealed the shape of their bodies. The former sat in the front of the class, the latter in the rear. It didn't seem like there was any middle ground.
Posted by: Sterling | Apr 12, 2005 1:24:48 AM | Email this comment
Nas, sorry for any offense, I wrote in the form of a question hoping someone who does know more would clarify. You have been the best research source on this topic so far!
But I see from the quotes Jeff has posted that what I had been told by my neighbors is not just a hadith (not even a 'weak' one), but from the words of your holy Quran itself. That to me is scary, and what I feared...that wife-beating is considered a normal part of keeping one's household in order and maktuban.
I'm glad that your wife (or wife to be)will be treated like a queen, which is the best way to insure that the husband is treated like a king.
Posted by: kinzi | Apr 12, 2005 2:39:41 AM | Email this comment
Kinzi, no offense taken, im just glad you (unlike many) are able to hear the actual side of the story before congealing ure opinion into concreate and simonizing it as a mantle piece to show others. thats a good approach to a religion which is under attack with mis-information.
ill try and keep this short, i got a final in a few hours...
our
There is a complete chapter in the quran dedicate to women and the affairs concerning women in society. The one verse which tends to get picked on is the one youve probably read refering to "beat your wives" which actually sounds harsh in english. In arabic (its original form) it retains a meaning to which the prophet pbuh refered to by example. beating is not something u do under the modern definition of knocking the other person out or giving them a shiner. what it refers to is a light brush (tap) against the body (not the face) that cannot even leave a mark, in other words its not saying take off your belts and go crazy on ure wife when she burns the toast. This "beating" is better translated to a form of restraint in a situation that calls for extremes, we're talking about a situation that is so grave that even the prophet pbuh never experienced it with any of his wives. Now muslims follow the sunnah (ways of) the prophet pbuh, and you have to logically conclude that if HE never did it then there is in all probability a very large unliklihood that no muslim should ever have to resort to it. Mind you, the society he lived in culturally accepted wife beating, and its reference in the quran is a last resort of 3, meaning there are two other preliminary measures to be taken first.
So the english word of "beating" does not refer to modern sense of physical abuse but rather a light tap, no more then what the prophet pbuh described as that of a siwak (a toothbrush). But he insisted that his followers never ever resort to this measure and to do all that is in their power to do so. If they abuse this power they would suffer grave consequences, every bruise on the wives of their skin would be multi-fold on them later on. So it was avoided by his followers based on this fear. He expressed his extreme repulsion on many occassions about this issue and this enough for any muslim to realise how bad it is.
What you see now is culture taking over, the dominating male making his wife the slave and hitting her for too little salt in the rice.
The relationship between man and women in islam is the 2nd most important thing after ones indivualist relationship with Allah. Becasue Islam believes that we as human beings are part of a collective worshiping the same lord. Hence our families must be preserved inorder for a larger society to be maintained. Hence the idea much like other monothiest religions, is to avoid divorce at all costs and to take all measures to resolve conflicts peacefully, mutually and lovingly.
if u have any questions, ask me.
thanks
Posted by: Nas | Apr 12, 2005 3:35:49 AM | Email this comment
I have a question Nas.
When you open the door to an ambiguous interpretation of what a "brush" is, you open the door to abuse. This door should have been shut. True?
Or, better yet, it should have been open to both genders. If the husband is allowed to "brush" the woman up, then shouldn't the woman be allowed to do the same?
Posted by: Ameen Malhas | Apr 12, 2005 5:00:39 AM | Email this comment
what it refers to is a light brush (tap) against the body (not the face) that cannot even leave a mark, in other words its not saying take off your belts and go crazy on ure wife when she burns the toast. This "beating" is better translated to a form of restraint in a situation that calls for extremes, we're talking about a situation that is so grave that even the prophet pbuh never experienced it with any of his wives. Now muslims follow the sunnah (ways of) the prophet pbuh, and you have to logically conclude that if HE never did it then there is in all probability a very large unliklihood that no muslim should ever have to resort to it. Mind you, the society he lived in culturally accepted wife beating
This is the same load of wishful thinking, speculation, and second guessing Allah that embarrassed Muslims through around everytime it comes to wife-beating. I find it easier to believe that that part intends what it states, especially given the context and the time it belongs to. Nevertheless, any sort of beating is simply inexcusable. But if you consider Muhammad as anything more than a social reformer I guess you have no way but to white wash everything he’s said and done. Another favorite is that Muhammad didn’t obtain numerous wives out of lust, but out of political necessity!
Posted by: Arash | Apr 12, 2005 6:31:19 AM | Email this comment
I am realy impressed of how " word meanings "are manipulated and given other meanings than they originally tend to mean. Beating, doesnt really mean beating. Jihad, doesnt mean fighting and killing. And "Amoot, in the verse "Salamon 3alayya yawma wolidto wa yawma amooto, wayawma ob3atho 7ayya..." does not mean "to die." Common, go tell those manipulations to people who do not understand Arabic to make your points look prettier.
Posted by: jareer | Apr 12, 2005 9:57:09 AM | Email this comment
Ameen, where is the ambiguity in a verse or in a word or in an act that the Prophet Pbuh has explained quite clearly to his followers both vocally, publically, and by example? How can a person shut his eyes and say it's interpretation when the Prophet offered the answer? So there is no interpretation here, there are words in the quran, explained by the prophet, and then his word in turn are backed up by actions. You have to understand what you see now are people acting on their own and to later on justify or defend their actions they mention religion. So here's they've committed two religious crimes, disobeying their lord's request and then twisting it justify their evil deeds. How many do you in Jordan for example who sit down with their wives and discuss a problem reasonably? I've never seen that, it's usually intimidation and abuse right off the bat. Note that in a time where you would find wife beating as common as a tv in every home, the prophet pbuh drew a line in the sand to stop it. And when it comes to matters which concern religious acts, muslims tend to (or should) follow the sunnah of the rasool, i.e. the ways of the Prophet pbuh, as he is the model case. Thank You.
Arash and Jareer, I really don't think I cant start a discussion with either of you since it appears your intentions are not to discuss but insult. I like to discuss and debate and explain my religion, but I dont like to resolve to petty insults to prove a point. So when you have something to present that is remotly close to an actual arguement I'll be more than happy to respond. thank you
Posted by: Nas | Apr 12, 2005 12:27:30 PM | Email this comment
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